Estephany & Cristabel: Know your Worth and Act On It
We're kicking off a new series for the podcast where we spotlight stories from the PDXWIT Community.
On this episode, we're joined by Cristabel Nichols and Estephany Mitchell – our first sister pair of podcast guests and powerhouse PDXWIT Community Members.
Cristabel currently heads up Web Operations Program Management at Provider Solutions & Development and Estephany supports our Operations here at PDXWIT. Together, they share the powerful impact PDXWIT had on their lives and careers: from free coding education, life changing mentorship, and access to leadership.
Learn about the power of PDXWIT’s events, resources, programming that bridge community and collective success.
Transcript
Intro:
Welcome to humanizing tech, a PDXWIT podcast. We interview people to dig below the surface of their achievements and challenges showcasing the story behind the story. We believe that focusing on the person and humanizing their lived experiences will help us shape the future of tech.
Anusha Neelam:
This episode of Humanizing Tech is brought to you by First Tech Federal Credit Union. First Tech puts people over profit with personalized financial services and convenient banking solutions to help you thrive. First Tech offers individualized tools for your financial wellness, whether you're saving for college, buying a house, or looking forward to retirement. When you're ready to save time and money, visit first tech fed.com and see how First Tech invests in you.
Before we get started, I want to acknowledge the land we are on, wherever we're turning in from. PDXWIT recognizes the ongoing violence, trauma, and erasure indigenous Oregonians and Native American face. Today we're recording from Portland today and Portland rests on the traditional village sites of the Multnomah, Kathlamet, Clackamas, Chinook, Tualatin, Kalapuya, Molalla and many other tribes who made their homes along the Columbia River. We endeavor to have this acknowledgement be more than just words. The tech industry is building the future of our world, and it is up to us to ensure that there is a future for all. To find out more about how we're supporting the future of indigenous Oregonians and Native Americans, please visit our website. We'll add a link in the show notes as well.
Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of Humanizing Tech. This is your co-host Anusha and my pronouns of she, her. Our episode today is gonna be a little different than how we usually do our episodes, and the following episodes as well. We've got a couple more episodes, which will be in a similar pattern, and this is gonna really kickstart, a mini series with shorter episodes that highlight individual stories of folks in the PDXWIT community that have benefited from opportunities and resources that PDXWIT provides, which we all know there's a lot of resources and a lot of things PDXWIT does.
So I am super excited to kick off the series. We have two very special guests with us today who are sisters and have been involved with the PDXWIT community for quite some time. So first I'm gonna introduce our first guest, Cristabel Nichols, who works as a web operations program manager for Provider Solutions and Development, which is a company that recruits physicians for healthcare systems across the United States. She oversees several websites and ensures their functionality, evaluates and manages website performance, facilitates hosting and server management, and develops, maintains and updates website content. That is quite a lot that she does in her day job. And before she was at this current company she was working as a digital content specialist with Cambia Health Solutions. Welcome Cristabel.
Cristabel Nichols:
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
AN:
Yeah, of course. And our second guest is none other than Estephany Mitchell who is PDXWIT’s own operations support specialist [laugh]. Estephany is no stranger to the nonprofit space, her work has included direct service to justice-impacted communities, program management and social impact development, bringing together her passions of cultivating belonging, creativity, and justice-informed leadership. We're so lucky to have Estephany as part of the PDXWIT staff. Welcome, Estephany.
Estephany Mitchell:
Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. This is, um, I don't know, it just feels good. I feel like this is my debut [laughs] even though I have…
AN:
[laughs] Welcome, you were born. [all laugh]
AN:
And it's also exciting cause I think you guys are the first sister pair that we're having on the podcast. So I'm super excited for you guys to be spending a Friday afternoon with me talking on the podcast [laughs]
CN:
Yeah, I know. Thank you.
EM:
You know what was missing from that list is Cristabel also has great snacks [laughs]
AN:
That's really important.
CN:
I truly do. I truly do. [laughs]
AN:
[laughs] Well, so I guess to kick things off, Cristabel, let's start with you. I'm curious to know what your initial experience and introduction to PDXWIT was and you know, was that a happy hour? Tell us a little bit more.
CN:
Well, PDXWIT is, wow, their happy hours are legendary and not like party animal type of way, but you know, if you attend, you can meet people that can get you a job. You'll definitely be talking to someone from HR because they tend to be there for that company. And you'll likely, like majority of the time you listen to someone in their company who's like a leader, which is super special because, that connection in that way through PDXWIT, there's so much credibility from them because you trust that they want to hire people who are starting or want to advance a careers in tech. And the people who are like presenting, the leaders, they're seeing people who are hungry to grow their careers. So it's like the perfect people in the room. Right. And PDXWIT makes that possible.
AN:
Mm-hmm. For sure.
CN:
Uh, how I found out about PDXWIT… I knew that I wanted to get out of government work and I knew also cause I'd done communications for government that if I do communications, then it was going to feel like more of the same. So what was in vogue at the time? It was becoming a coder. Okay, now kindergartners have coding… with their snack. It's like so common, but not even that long ago, literally five years ago, it wasn't that common. And so I think I googled it and I found out about events, but later on, PDXWIT was more reinforced because of my mentor relationship. But funny enough, when I worked for that company that got me into tech they were a major sponsor for PDXWIT, so we often had PDXWIT speakers come and… like 2000 people would come listen to them.
I would write articles about it. I quote Megan Bigelow for our social media platforms. So I feel really close to the organization, kind of like Estephany, a full circle. And from then I kept going, right? But then I would go and there was all this free food and drinks and I was hungry [laughs], and I was thirsty [laughs], so that worked out. But I was coding, you know what I mean? I was so intimidated. And I'll tell you guys, I went to a coding event before I even knew how to code. And, uh, there was a child there who was eight years old and describing… It was a free event to learn how to code. This kid was building an app and he was like, I have a question. I'm stuck on this part of the app building process and blah blah, big words.
And I was so impressed. And that's when I knew, I was like, okay… it's not like if a kid could do it, I can do it.. It's more like, anybody can learn. Anybody! Yeah. So through PDXWIT Happy Hours and everything else, I met my mentor Maigen Thomas, that's m a i g e n if you're curious. She is a senior UX senior designer, but she also helps people with career coaching to switch careers. She is the one who took me from government 10 years to corporate, but then technology adjacent to technology, which is, I guess you could say I do technology adjacent, but when I tell you I did technology adjacent, it was because it was half communications and half website management. And now I fulltime do website management and there's always gonna be a component of it that's communications, but it's less about a campaign of one article and it's more about the whole brand, the whole company, the whole representation of the company digitally and the UX experience, right? For all the users. So it's different and more focused and I love it.
AN:
That's great. Well, yeah, that's amazing that you were able to find out about PDXWIT in some way whether it was social media or else in some other manner. But eventually you were able to make your presence at a tech event and really start growing and learning your career from there. And it sounds like your mentor, did you get your mentor through PDXWIT’s mentorship program? Or was that someone that you just met at the event that became your mentor?
CN:
Maigen Thomas, I believe she was one of the… Estephany, what did you say? What was her role at PDXWIT? She was like a board member.
EM:
No, that was Megan Bigelow.
CN:
Oh, Bigelow, yeah.
EM:
Yeah. They started PDXWIT. [laughs]
CN:
I actually know Megan Bigelow. But through PDXWIT, anyway, my company, so here it is, I met her through a ChickTech conference. But that's all I did. I met her, she was presenting. From then on, we took a left turn and a little tiny car, an imaginary car, and we went PDXWIT Route because that was the way I met her but then everything else was PDXWIT. PDXWIT is the reason I have the life I have now. I feel like I'm talking about multi-level marketing, but I'm not, I've literally, I think I've tripled my pay as a result of my communication.
I mean, as a result of my relationship with PDXWIT, I'll say that again. I've tripled my salary as a result of my relationship with PDXWIT and the people associated with them. So Maigen Thomas was my mentor, and from then on she took me and encouraged me to keep going to PDXWIT Happy Hours. But she was like a career coach, so she made me more strategic. I was no longer sitting down quietly, you know, we built a plant. So before, I didn't know the future at the time that it would take me five months, but five months before I switched careers and everything else, we sat down together and I remember going to this coffee shop and it was Good Coffee on Morrison, so delicious [laughs].
And, I met her there. And you know, we discussed my career. I walked from the job, I worked in government on my break to meet her. And we would talk and it was like, I don't know, could I reimagine my life? And what was my passion? I'll tell you right now, I really, really don't like when people go, what do you love doing? But if you could get paid like a million dollars, you would do it. Do you know what I mean? Like, I would stay freaking home. You know, I would go on vacation, I'd raise my kids or something, and some people would start a nonprofit. Everyone could do a lot of things. But what I've learned is that it's really, really hard to talk to someone who's never really explored that internally to be like, what do I love?
What do I hate? That is such an overwhelming concept for people. And Maigen was so thoughtful the way she approached me. It was more about, you know what? You are worth it. You are valuable and you deserve to make more money. You're really intelligent. Just take a stab at that direction. You wanna learn technology. And she'd be like, why do you wanna learn technology? I'd be like, because.. I don't know what answer I gave her. But I remember it was something like, it's because, those are like the decision makers and they make decisions. She goes, I mean, yeah, they do, but it's all based on research. So it's not only their decision. So that's when I realized, okay, I don't know anything about technology. I want money, money, money, money. But I also don't wanna do something where I'm gonna be stuck.
Cause I felt stuck in government and she was so thoughtful. So, through her, we went through a PDXWIT happy hour, I'm telling you my life every single time [laughs], she walks up to the… after the event, she walks up to the CEO at the time of Treehouse. And he gave me a free year of coding. That was that Maigen did that.
AN:
Wow.
CN:
And, and so that's when I started coding and that's when my brain melted because I have never thought of concepts, you know what I mean? It's a totally different way of thinking. It's a lot of memorization. But it was also really satisfying once you understood certain concepts. And it wasn't a loss cause I don't code now, but I definitely use it. So she connected me to that. Then I started to code and then she and I were meeting every single week.
I'm telling you, she poured herself into me. Wow. She taught me about technology. She taught me about the industry, the culture, the connections. She really knew who's who. And she really took the time to meet me where I was at. Anyway, at another PDXWIT happy hour, that was the turning point. She and I had practiced an elevator speech a lot, and I never thought of my wildest dreams I would do it with a microphone in front of a thousand people at a PDXWIT happy hour. But she had told me about a job with a company called Cambia. And I was like, oh, that looks good. So she goes, yeah, but there's also a happy hour happening at that same company. You could meet people. So I went in the bus because there's no parking in downtown Portland. And that was really good.
Anyway, so I went inside this building and it was so beautiful. Cause you have to [understand]... I work in government, okay. Think of a library smell. Okay. [laughs], that is my, I'm coming from that to like glamor cuz it was a fireplace that was, I don't know, like 20 feet long, long! It was so beautiful. And there's chairs that are cushy, you know what I mean? I just couldn't believe it. It was so beautiful and also filled with people. I swear there was a thousand people there. It was jam packed and it was a humongous lobby. Probably the ceiling was a hundred feet tall. I mean, two stories worth in just one room. It was beautiful. So very intimidating. But I told you I sit in the back, but I'm practicing my speech with Maigen. She's there. She's like, this is now, you know, now you're ready.
You've been taking coding classes, she's really taught me more about my self worth. I'm telling you right now, self worth is a key to figuring out what you wanna do. It's less about favorite things to do. It's more about realizing that you're a valuable person just the way you are and that you matter. So then during the q&a part, cause you know how during happy hour, especially that big one, they have like different speakers like sitting in tall chairs and they all have a microphone, you know? And then I remember there was a couch, remember I told you about the cushy ones? There was a couch and a thousand people sitting on the floor and on these couches. But one couch was empty. And you know why? Because it was right in the front. Like if you stood up, you would be in their face. Oh. But I was like, that's me now.
AN:
Love it. [laughs] Yeah.
CN:
Ugh. I still remember. So then I got up and my clothes were okay, [laughs], I remember that. I was like, oh my God, oh my God, I'm gonna be in a picture. I'm sure of it. But I just come from a government job, so I wasn't, you know, just super professional. But I did the best I could in the bathroom, ta, ta, ta licked my hair back. And then I said, I have a question. So they gave me the mic and I asked the CIO of Cambia, I was like, would you ever consider hiring? I sounded like I was gonna cry because I was so scared. Would you ever, um, hi, uh, my name is Cristabel Nichols and I really love technology and I've been learning a lot about it. And, and, um, thank you so much for presenting today. And then I told them a little bit about myself that Maigen and I practiced.
And then I said, would you ever consider hiring someone like me who's starting their coding journey?
AN:
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.
CN:
And I swear everyone looked at me and then looked at the people on the panel. But I was talking to Laurie because she's the CIO of Cambia and I remembered about that job. So then she goes, yes. She goes, come up, come up to me afterwards. And I was like, this isn't real. And then I went up to her afterwards, Megan was there and Laurie goes to her assistant and, you know, someone's important. They just throw you to their assistant. I felt so good [laughs]. She's like, assistant person, come here. She goes, can you book, Cristabel with an appointment with me? Yeah. We'll talk, I mean c i o Okay. Less like CEO, but the I, right? It's a big deal. And I didn't even have a certificate in coding yet. [laughs]
AN:
[laughs] Mm-hmm.
CN:
I didn't even, and that was the start. I can keep going if you want or if you wanted to ask me a question so far.
AN:
Yeah, sure. First of all, thank you so much for sharing that story cause I feel like there's so much conversation that we have in our happy hours and just in the PDXWIT community about how important the events are that PDXWIT puts on. And you know, in my personal opinion, they're also very intentional. And I think that there is a lot of fear and hesitation about getting there in the first place because it seems so intimidating. And I remember even for me, my first PDXWIT event in 2018, there are a lot of people and like there were a lot of people, especially when we had in person events, which I know we still do today. and we're continuing to do now that we're in this post-pandemic space. But really I think it's so important for people to hear that it can be scary.
But you know, if you take that opportunity, there's just so much out there. And PDXWIT provides this safe space for people to come and show up and be able to ask for what they want. And I love that you also talked about self-worth being a big part of figuring out what you want to do. Cause I think that's really important for folks to hear as well. And really quickly, for those of you who didn't know, and are looking to potentially get it and mentor yourself, like Cristabel had, where they were able to provide that support and advice and all of that. PDXWIT has a mentorship program and you can find out more about it by going to PDXWIT.org/mentorship and we'll put that in the show notes for folks to check out later as well.
But, if you're interested in getting matched, you can meet with a mentor on a regular basis, but if not, there's also an option for you to do on the spot mentorship, which is going to allow you to prepare if you need it for an upcoming interview or if you need to polish up your resume, get resume help. You can also set up like 30 or 60 minute one-on-one sessions as needed if you just need some advice or someone to talk to. So highly recommend checking it out. It's a great resource. But yeah, just wanted to plug that in there for any of you who are listening to Cristabel’s story and were like, how can I get myself a mentor? [laughs]. But I did wanna, Estephany, I wanna talk to you a little bit about the same question really. I wanna know what / who might have introduced you to PDXWIT? [laughs]
EM:
Listening to your story Cristabel, just honestly, I got to vicariously see and live your story. And so part of me, I'm like, I'm not gonna cry in a public house, but I wanna, cause I'm really proud of her. A lot of grind and grit and she needed a lot of help. You know, before I answer a story, just for context, we didn't grow up with a lot of opportunities. Or like knowledge of other careers or industries. It was very much… which is okay and respectable, just like retail [laughs]
AN:
Mm-hmm.
EM:
We're likeI just wanna do that. And so we just didn't know what other options or opportunities were available to us that could lead to other pathways. Cause people change over time. So seeing her…. like I went to… to answer your question, what brought me to PDXWIT was actually my sister Cristabel when, she's like, I used to work in downtown and we at the time lived together and she's like, you should come. It'll change your life. [laughs]
And I was like, okay, why not? I think it's sister time. But, I remember, I think my first event was, it was hosted by Airbnb and it was very lively, very energetic, and she knew what she was doing, [laughs]. Cause you had been to a couple and so you were very, very confident and I really just stepped back and just observed people were very, very happy, very welcoming. It was very well organized. People were making introductions, really good food [laughs]. So I appreciate the refreshments. Cause that always makes for a good time too. But it was kind of like a whirlwind because I didn't fully understand what was happening. I was joining Cristabel. I went to another PDXWIT event where we had, now I know we had Lightning Talks essentially. And yeah, so good too. They are very encouraging. And, you know, Cristabel you talk about being shy, but by the time I started joining her to the events she would leave me [laughs]
CN:
I’m like, I gotta get a job, girl.
EM:
I wasn't looking for a tech career reserve for more of moral support and encouragement. I think now, being employed at PDXWIT knowing Cristabel's story, seeing her live out this story and seeing her life change because of PDXWIT… our jobs are so important because they change lives. And so I think when you said PDXWIT is a safe space, it certainly is. I remember I did dabble in Tech [laughs]. I wanted to be a front-end developer.
CN:
She was very good.
EM:
Yes, I'm very good at it. [laughs]
CN:
It's very irritating. I was like, ahhhh. And she was like, I will explain it to you. She's just not one time. Some people have the mind.
EM:
I was very excited and I remember I was like, I went back to school and I was really excited. And I remember I was at an event, not a PDXWIT event, it was just a casual event. And I was talking with a group of people who were lab designers or shoe designers and I was like, this is fun. I've never been part of a group where people have different talent, have a different career. And I have shared, yeah, I'm starting to code, like it's very basic to see us at like HTML and CSS. And one of the people in the group was like, do you even know what that means? Do you even know what CSS means? And I was like, ohhh, it was very like off putting [laughs]
AN:
Mm-hmm.
EM:
You know, in my brain I'm like, oh, I thought like this was a space where like it would be, cause it would be supportive because when I was at PDXWIT events, it was very much like, oh yeah, these are resources, this is what that means. There was a lot of coaching… asking questions or not knowing information was okay. I didn't feel othered even though I just didn't really understand. And so in other spaces I'm like, what?? [laughs] And that's cause I had a positive experience with PDXWIT.
AN:
Mm-hmm.
EM:
What bring me honestly full circle to the organization was my sister. Because at one of the happy hours, she's like, Estephany, you should work. I don't know if you remember Cristabel? You were like, Estephany…
CN:
Airbnb?
EM:
Yeah You were like, you should work here. You would love working here. You should apply. [laughs] I'm like, I just got here. I just got here. But when I was looking for a new job, actually PDXWIT is where I wanted to be. So it really came full circle.
CN:
That's awesome. That was a great reputation for sure. Yeah.
AN:
Yeah. And so you both were kind of sharing stories about just having limited knowledge about the tech industry when you were first exposed to PDXWIT. I'm curious to know, what would you say were kind of these initial barriers to getting your first job in tech? Cristabel I know you talked a little bit about the skill set being a part of it for you and trying to to learn a new skill set and get into the tech industry that way. But do you feel like it was not knowing enough people in this community to be able to make that transition? Or was there, were there other challenges?
CN:
Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, [laughs]. Yes. Yes. It's not knowing enough because I remember I'd go to different happy hours with PDXWIT and they were so… the companies were so desperate, you know what I mean? To hire people and they were like, who can do it now? Yesterday? But if you were a woman or person of color, they seemed even more eager because they were trying to buy way of PDXWIT kind of meet the community that they couldn't reach through traditional channels because people of color and stuff like that, they tend to be more relational because they trust the people that they talk to or the people that they talk to talk to.
AN:
Mm-hmm.
CN:
And of course, we know how to use technology, but it's so much nicer to meet someone in person and apply for a job. There's a confidence that comes with that that doesn't happen unless somebody brings somebody with power and that's PDXWIT brings people to the table. Two mutual things. One wants to give you a job, one wants a job. And the other in between, it's just a lot of relationship building. So yes, I think skill is one, but for sure knowing people, cause if I hadn't met Maigen or her introduced me to more people, I wouldn't have gotten to where I am today for sure.
AN:
Yeah. Yeah. No, that's great. Yeah I think community has so much power and being able to look around the room and see a lot of people that might be in similar situations and feel like you're all there working towards a goal to get yourself into potentially a better situation is… I think it's just a very… it speaks volumes and I think there's a lot of empowerment in that, which is something that I love about PDXWIT.
Estephany, so from finding out about PDXWIT and then Cristabel telling you that you should potentially look at working for PDXWIT and then now actually being a part of the staff, what has that journey been like for you, just from finding out about it to, to where you are now?
EM:
When Cristabel, when you asked me that question, was that like five years ago? [laughs]
CN:
Mm-hmm.
EM:
But you asked me that question five years ago and at that time I had decided, I wanna invest my time in something that connects with my values. Something that supports my community. Something that brings out a new skill set in me and somewhere where I feel good. We all wanna go to work feeling good. And, in my journey to find a new job, PDXWIT honestly just stood out. I went to the job board because I knew PDXWIT had a job board [laughs] so I was really excited when they had an operation support specialist position. A lot of my background has been in supporting nonprofits for folks that have been historically marginalized, which really connects to our mission about serving historically marginalized communities, fueling belonging, creating access, and those are all things that I was naturally connected to.
So for me, it was an easy jump to wanna come and be a team member at PDXWIT. I think what gives me more grit also is just seeing how much the story or how much this organization has helped her.
CN:
Me. [all laugh]
EM:
Yes. I'm pointing at a screen [laughs] Seeing how much it has helped Cristabel because, this can really change lives. When I think about… I just reviewed applications for Investing In You new scholarship, which supports anyone interested in advancing their tech career or breaking into tech to pay for, um,
CN:
Get it!! It's right there, on the table [laughs].
EM:
Yeah. You know, and like that money, you know, when I think about my own journey and my own tech journey and when I think about Cristabel’s tech journey… that money is super helpful when you're trying to pay bills, go back to school, pay for hardware certification.
It's a boost of encouragement. So when I think about the resources that we have, I just, everything really… it's like I see the story lived out through her and then I get to be a part of folks' journey by making sure we have these resources by getting those PDXWIT events going. And what's really awesome, you mentioned this earlier in the podcast, we do have… we're going back to, we have been going back to in person, but now our events are going hybrid [laughs]. So we're creating apps for folks that can't join us in person. So that's one of the things I love about PDXWIT is that they're a model for how we can bridge resources, bridge our community and then help each other.
AN:
Yeah, that's amazing. That's a great point too, a note as well is that we've, throughout the pandemic… PDXWIT has found a way to go virtual and still have these happy hours and things, which is amazing. Definitely I'm sure everyone appreciates PDXWIT and the staff for everything that you guys do to, like you said, change lives. Like there's so many opportunities and resources that the organization provides that really can make such a big difference. Um, yeah, but…
EM:
Can I jump ahead to that… It's also our volunteers. Cause our volunteers are also the heartbeat of the organization. [laughs] Definitely give credit to them too. Definitely.
AN:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, PDXWIT is what 90% volunteer run, right? For all of the different things that the organization does.
EM:
Yeah!
AN:
It's pretty incredible how we just have such dedicated volunteers. That is a great call out. Cristabel, I wanted to ask you… you had asked me to ask you when we previously spoke about work life balance, and I know that you have a very interesting take on this topics. Can you share that with our listeners?
CN:
Yeah. So I saw this speech not in person, but actually recently, but it was from 2014 where Shonda Rhimes the creator, Bridgerton, Grey's Anatomy, Scandal, gave a commencement speech and I'm just gonna read a quote real quick. She said, “if I am killing it on Scandal, on a Scandal script for work, I am probably missing bath and story time at home [with her kids]. If I'm at home sewing my kids' Halloween costume, I'm probably blowing off a rewrite I was supposed to turn in.” She goes, that is a trade off. “That is the Faustian Bargain one makes with a devil that comes with being a powerful working woman who is also a powerful mother. You never feel a hundred percent okay. You never get your sea legs and you're always a little nauseous.” I say that I wanted to share that because a lot of women get asked that, you didn't plan on asking me that.
I appreciate for not you for not being sexist, that's great. But I wanted to talk about it anyway because so many women with careers and kids feel that tension and hope it gets better. And I'm here to tell you, it just becomes the ebb and flow of life. It gets better in the sense of your perspective. You know what I mean? But sea legs and feeling not guilty, no, that'll hardly ever happen because, like she said, if you're doing super spectacular work, then there's probably something you're neglecting in your personal life. And that goes for people with or without kids, right?
AN:
Mm-hmm.
CN:
And, to keep that in mind, this is a job, right? It doesn't bring, it doesn't make me valuable as a person to have the job that I have now. That's one of the reasons I wanted money so bad. I mean, I liked money anyway, but when I worked in government, you didn't make a lot, because they make up for their salaries with really good benefits and that's great. But money, okay. And that's one of the reasons I wanted money cause I was like, I'll be important. Do you know what I mean? But it's not about that. You're important already. You're valuable already. And for all the working people out there that have children or maybe they're a caregiver for someone who's sick or something like that, and they also have to full-time job.
It's like when you feel guilty, it's okay. You're probably doing something right because that means you're trying to do two things at once and you're just not paying attention to two things at once. You have one in your mind and one in your hands. So what I do is I try to just be okay with the guilt. I can't make myself un-guilty, honestly, [laughs], I can't, I can't, it's so weird, like when I'm driving my son to school and he's like, mommy, I don't feel good today. But he's saying that cause he doesn't wanna go to school, he wants to watch TV and, cause he loves TV and I wanna give him everything, I wanna give him the TV at that moment. Who cares? He's not suffering. But I'm okay with guilt now and it's normal. I'm just saying that it's normal. I submit to you, live with it and see it as part of the process and welcome to Parenthood [laughs].
AN:
Yeah, no, thank you so much for sharing that take on work life balance. I think it's something that does come up a lot and unfortunately it's something that we do ask women the most. And when you had brought this up to me and wanted to talk about it and share your take, I was really,... that's what this podcast is about. Like with the Humanizing Tech podcast, we really do wanna keep things candid. We wanna have these conversations as openly as possible and dig below the surface. Because I think externally, when you're on the outside looking in, something can seem a certain way or like, oh, if I do this, that'll fix everything. But that's not always the case. Like there is that guilt factor and sometimes the best thing that you can do is just accept it. And so I think that's a great sentiment to share with our listeners for sure.
CN:
Yeah. And another thing is you can look for these values in the company you're gonna work for, you can see how they treat people, what their benefits are, what maternity leave is, things like that. You can ask the people who work there what it's like for them. And that's what you can do in happy hours. What's it like for you? You meet someone with kids, what's it like for you to work here? Do you know what I mean? Like that's insight that I don't get from a job description and you can use that to make better decisions.
AN:
Absolutely. Yeah. That's a great point. Well it's been super fun talking to both of you, but it's getting to that time where we have to close out our segment here in just a few. But before we go, Cristabel and Estephany, I'm sure that both of you have some things that you might wanna leave our listeners with. Is there any advice or call to action that you want to part with?
EM:
I'll go first. Um, yes. If you are new to PDXWIT, please come check us out at our happy hours, whether they're virtual or in person. For our virtual, we have a general networking room. Come and just say hi. If you're not sure where to start, that's a really great place. We would love to connect with you and share what kind of resources we have. Like Cristabel will share, it can be really intimidating just jumping in and networking can be a really scary word or action. But I promise you there's people here that can help make those connections for you and can be an advocate for you and support you along the way. So please check us out.
CN:
Yeah, well said Stef. I would say, listen, tech adjacent careers are out there. I know y'all get a podcast every week or whatever about becoming like a freaking engineer. Go for it, build it, you UI people, okay, do it [laughs]. But for those who are tech adjacent, there is a career here for you. Maybe your strong suit isn't coding and engineer web development, but you're really good with managing projects and people. You could be a tech project manager or you could even be the person that manages the technology relationships. So you have to have a level of understanding of the technology aspect of what they're building to be the middle man or woman, so to speak between that. And now you have a very, very important role that had you not had enough technology understanding or enough communications experience, then you couldn't do it.
But you have both. There's a lot of jobs that have that mix and they're out there and they have upward mobility and it's worth pursuing and seeing if there are jobs. You could go right now from the job you're in now to that one without having to get a full on certificate. And maybe while you're over there you can discover if there are certificates that are needed and sometimes the company will even pay for it. So it is just a good all around investment of your time to see if this is a good option for you.
AN:
Yeah. Thank you both so much. Great pieces of advice. And I am sure our listeners are super thankful to have heard from both of you today. And, just appreciate you both sharing your stories with us. And I know PDXWIT is near and dear to my heart and I'm excited for this podcast to come out because, I think there's just some really useful stuff in it for folks that are tuning in. But I also wanna just very quickly shout out our entire podcast team. Huge thank you to all of you. Your hard work and dedication really makes it possible for us to share these amazing stories. And to our listeners, thank you so much for tuning in. We will catch you again really soon on our next mini episode. Thanks so much.
Outro:
PDXWIT is a 501C3 nonprofit. We're building a better tech industry by creating access, dismantling inequities and feeling belonging. Find out more about us at www.PDXWIT.org. Like this podcast? Subscribe and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Wanna give us feedback? Contact us podcast@pxwit.org to help us improve and ensure you learn and grow from the stories you hear on humanizing tech.